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Yocto Technical Team Minutes, Engineering Sync, for July 7, 2020

Trevor Woerner
 

Yocto Technical Team Minutes, Engineering Sync, for July 7, 2020
archive: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ly8nyhO14kDNnFcW2QskANXW3ZT7QwKC5wWVDg9dDH4/edit

== disclaimer ==
Best efforts are made to ensure the below is accurate and valid. However,
errors sometimes happen. If any errors or omissions are found, please feel
free to reply to this email with any corrections.

== attendees ==
Trevor Woerner, Jan-Simon Möller, Stephen Jolly, Josef Holtzmeyer, Joshua
Watt, Trevor Gamblin, Steve Sakoman, Armin Kuster, Scott Murray, Peter
Kjellerstedt, Saul Wold, Ross Burton, Richard Purdie, Michael Halstead,
Rahul, Vineela?, Bruce Ashfield, Tim Orling, Randy MacLeod, Mathew Zeng,
Rob Woolley, Philip Balister, Paul Barker, Khem Raj

== notes ==
- thanks to everyone involved in any way with ELC and DevDay!
- still have AB instability
- still looking for more maintainers
- looking for way to attract and thank contributors
- lots of unassigned bugs we’d like to see for 3.2 (see unassigned bugs)

== general ==
RP: happy to have some things fixed in AB, but still issues

RP: thanks to everyone involved in ELC and especially the Yocto DevDay

Timo: i see the perl update was merged, but it seems like lots of things
were dropped (RDEPENDS), so i predict there will still be issues with
split-packaging
RP: i noticed that too, the AB was all green
Timo: we’re probably missing tests

Saul: heard a rumor about Stephen
Stephen: that i’m retiring? yes, next week. but i’m continuing on as a
volunteer with YP
Randy: how long at Intel?
Stephen: 34.5 years

RP: ? licenses are inherited globally, are people using the license package
directly?
JPEW: we display the generic and specific license because they’re there
SS: customers i’ve known have always used just the generic
Randy: WR has its own code for analysing the code to pull licenses, but
customers appreciate having the generic
Peter: we have to go through the code to sort out the 20 different variations
on GPLv2, a mess!
RP: it’s been pointed out to me that the checksums of the generic license
files are not checked, so if there was ever a change in the generic text,
there isn’t anything that would alert the users
Peter: is it meaningful to use checksums for the generic text? that’s not
the same case as the license of some upstream code changing
RP: well, if that changes then the task-hash should change which is supposed
to case rebuilds etc
JPEW: there was a bug filed
https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13917
RP: this shouldn’t be happening, but there are probably other “games”
going on

RP: is anyone using the SPDX class from OE-core? i hope the answer is
“no”, i imagine it’s quite broken by now. i have a patch i plan to
post
Randy: i don’t see WR using it (quick look)

Timo: i was looking at patchwork again, is there somewhere we can run a test
instance somewhere for testing
Michael: vm at digital ocean currently, i can create a staging instance on YP
hardware. who else will be using it?
Timo: Amber, potentially. i’ll give you an update
Michael: i’ll spin up something new, the current is ubuntu 16.04 so it needs
an update anyway

TW: how did the booth go last week at ELC virtual?
Philip Balister: the interface for the booth was clucky, didn’t get any new
contacts
Timo: i had one interesting contact at the booth, but it didn’t go as well
as it could have
Josef: not a lot of new folks, got a lot of people contacting me in thanks
for the live coding stuff, lots of contacts from the middle-European and
south-central Asia, we have lots of contacts in west Europe and NA, but
need to develop more in the other areas
RP: this would be a good question for the advocacy list
Randy: do you know what sort of communication would work best?
Josef: lots via linked-in, stack overflow. irc and email are not that popular.
lots and lots in twitter!
Timo: agree with twitter

Timo: what did people think of using slack?
TrevorG: hard to know whether to reply in-line or as a thread
Philip: feel it’s terrible for open source to use slack (free version
loses history, bad optics). gnu radio tried slack, moved away. recommend
mattermost
JPEW: slack can work if you have the ability to create arbitrary channels
(which wasn’t available with the ELC slack)
Scott: the mattermost interface has better handling for threads, a “best of
both worlds” between slack and irc
Timo: gitter (meta-python, etc) works better for me. i agree with Philip that
the thread thing
Philip: i’d be curious to see a mattermost try
RP: matrix might be a good way to bridge both worlds (traditional use irc,
younger crowd using other things)
Philip: matrix worked well for gnu radio
Paul: agree with others that slack wasn’t that great, but think that we
should explore other technologies
Timo: looking at what Fedora has done, it’d be great to see more
integration. e.g. reports from AB reported live
Khem: i’ve used matrix and like it, can’t comment on mattermost, i think
Fedora is also using discourse to amalgamate email, irc, etc. matrix is
nice because you can edit, so the log looks better than irc
RP: resources, risk of forking the community (some follow email, some follow
A, some follow B) i’d like to have a central dashboard but we need to
find resources
Paul: people who use a given technology might not be the people to are
interested in various aspects of the project
Timo: i like the idea of integrating
RP: it sounds like it can all be integrated
Balister: if the bridges aren’t setup properly it can be detrimental
(PaulB has visions of messages going around each platform recursively forever)

Timo: how did people feel about the hands-on sessions?
Khem: i think it went well in general, in-person would have been more
effective
TW: usually there are 2 tracks, break-out rooms
Khem: virtual is much harder, hard to get people the help when you’re not
sure who is at what stage, people have to speak up
Timo: in the past sometime we would just get to jump in and give people a new
instance
TW: hard to know who’s struggling, no feedback
Timo: large numbers too, glad to see the number of participants, but the
larger the class, the harder to manage.
Rob Woolley: https://github.com/conan-io/training?files=1 did a hands-on that
i thought was really well done. instructions on git, thumbs-up to say
“i’m done”, scripts to get people caught up
Khem: yes, good idea!
Josef: unfortunate that the biggest devday ever had only 1, mostly advanced,
track. and the first couple talks were on advanced details (licenses,
containers)
Scott: i think they were merged because beginner numbers were going down
Khem: we should have separate rooms
RP: there was a definite trend, in real conferences, esp in NA towards
intermediate/advanced talks. beginner attendance higher in europe
Khem: lots of people from everywhere around the world
Randy: why wait for the next conference? maybe do this monthly
JPEW: was there a survey?
various: yes

Timo: i really missed not having an OED{E|A}M
Philip: board is talking about it
TW: what about #oe-meeting on irc, we had a couple a while back
Philip: give us a bit of time to figure something out. nice that we don’t
have to put it against ELC/ELCe

Timo: want to give a shoutout to Josef for his working especially bringing in
new people via his Twitch streams
Josef: thanks! lots of neat stuff coming up. we’re over 32k views in last
few months, 150 new followers each week